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http://www.coolcatdaddy.com/cyrwyn/
cyrwyn@coolcatdaddy.com
cyrwyn@nr.infi.net
Stuart Norman is a gay activist, a leader in the Leather/SM
subculture for more than 20 years, and founder of Tarheel Leather Club.
He describes himself as a Leatherfaerie Shaman, exploring the connection
between BDSM and spirituality and bringing that to our community through
his writings, lectures and workshops. His writings have been published
in a variety of magazines, the best known of which is "I am the
Leatherfaerie Shaman," published in the now classic anthology,
"Leatherfolk."
Read Stuart Norman's Article Shamanism
Sadie: The first piece I read of yours was "I am the
Leatherfaerie Shaman" in Mark Thompson's anthology,
"Leatherfolk." Now in it's tenth year and being reprinted with
an updated forward, I wonder how being published in this classic BDSM
book has affected your life?
Stuart: "It hasn't changed my life tremendously, after all, the
leather/SM community is a very small one and my fame in it is only a
minor blip on the radar screen. There are many more worthy and famous
people included in the book. However, I have received many appreciations
of the chapter over the years and I'm very proud of it. It's wonderful
that ‘Leatherfolk’ has remained in print for so long and is in a
second printing. Mark sent me a prepublication copy of the 10th
anniversary edition a few months ago."
Sadie: You write that, "Shamanism is not a religion, but a
spiritual way of living in and seeing the world. It is a very individual
calling." And in fact, you describe yourself as a cybershaman. For
our readers who might be unfamiliar with being a shaman, much less a
cybershaman, could you please describe what this means?
Stuart: "A shaman can be many things. One description I like very
much is ‘A person of knowledge.’ This means very special kinds of
knowledge, usually broadly spiritual or that of healing, both physical
and mental/spiritual. Common identifications of shamans are witchdoctor,
medicine-person, berdache, etc., all part of a tribal system, I think
the leather/SM community is in many ways tribal. Shamans walk on the
edge of society and sometimes step off to the other side to work with
the powers of the alternate world and to bring back knowledge to the
tribe. Shamans are outsiders, somewhat strange, never regular people.
They have powers of perception that most people don't. However, any
field, even science, can be a body of knowledge for shamans. One may be
born with the potential to be a shaman, but there's a lot of hard work
to get there."
"I'm a cybershaman because I use the Internet to communicate a lot.
I was one of the early adopters of the Internet and I'm also a computer
guru - it's all part of the mix of knowledge.
"I want my readers to understand that being a modern shaman isn't
quite like the shamans of old. I have the advantage of living in a
scientific civilization and intimate familiarity with the
anthropological literature concerning shamanism."
Sadie: On top of the shaman thing, you are also a leatherfaerie.
While the gay leather community is probably pretty familiar with what
this means, the more heterogeneous readers of my interviews might need a
little more information however. Can you give me the short version of
what a leatherfaerie is, and how this term plays out in gay history?
Stuart: "I'm a Radical Faerie, as well as a leatherman. Faeries are
difficult to define because if you ask a group of 10 faeries you'll
probably get 12 definitions! They are alternative and usually
countercultural people, mostly men and mostly gay, but anyone can be a
faerie; it's what's in the heart that matters. Faeries originated from
the 1960s countercultural movements, so there's a lot of alternative
beliefs: Goddess and pagan worship, very free sexuality, many prefer to
live in rural areas or at least have an attachment to natural land.
They're certainly not mainstream gay. In the early 1980s, some of us in
separate parts of the country put Faerie and leather consciousness
together and created Leathefaeries, one of those ideas whose time had
come."
Sadie: They say that "if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill
him," meaning that if you meet someone who claims to be a mystic,
they probably aren't. Do you think this also applies to calling yourself
a shaman? There is a fair bit of co-opting of Native American rites and
beliefs, and some feel that it is not cool either on a historical or a
spiritual level to be calling oneself a shaman. What are your thoughts
on this?
Stuart: "Killing the Buddha on the road can be interpreted in many
ways. One alternative is not accepting the authority of the mystic over
your life - it may not be the right path for you. Many self-proclaimed
mystics were mystics. They needed to advertise. There's no law out there
that makes this identification suspect. Shamanism isn't just Native
American, but a part of ALL so-called primitive tribes going back far
into prehistory. Shamanism is identified by perceptions and acts and
doesn't have to be the particular belief system of any specific tribe.
Mine isn't. If I called myself a shaman for a particular native tribe,
then I'd be in trouble."
Sadie: Your passion is writing about BDSM and spirituality. How did you
come to explore these two paths together?
Stuart: "It came out of a lifetime of spiritual exploration that
led me to become a shaman. When I came out gay at a rather late age, I
realized where my spiritual preparation had led me. Because many shamans
have been bisexual or homosexual, which may give us alternate
perceptions, I realized that my calling was to be a shaman for the gay
tribe, but already being countercultural, I was attracted to Faeries and
the rituals of leatherfolk and found that these groups were more tribal
and had aspects of shamanism, Their ways have become my ways and my
family."
Sadie: You offer workshops in becoming a shaman. Say, for example, a
suburban white girl like myself wanted to go down that path. Where would
I start? Would I need to go out in the desert, chew on cactus leaves and
pray to the sungods, or is it possible to explore these things in my
warm and comfy home in Vermont?
Stuart: "Sure, it's possible to explore shamanism from the comfort
of your home, but there are also needed experiences to get one out of
the everyday self. Shamanism can't always be comfortable. It's hard,
sometimes perilous work. It's not the physical place that matters, but
the psychic space. Physical places can be conducive to altering psychic
space, especially if the physical place offers a strenuous environment.
First, you need to read a lot of literature on shamanism, some from
shamans, but also the anthropological literature to get a broader
understanding of shamanism. Then, comes the practical work. As in SM,
you've got to have real, practical experience. You can't do either just
by reading books. It may be best to apprentice self to a shaman."
Sadie: We're all familiar with the ascetic concept of Ghandi
wandering in the desert, eschewing clothing, food and comfort. I believe
that God gave us physical bodies in order to appreciate the sensual
aspects of life - i.e. soft clothing, delicious food, warm blankets on a
cold Vermont night. Did you mean that I might need to suffer a la
Ghandi, or is it more like going to emotional and spiritual places that
may be uncomfortable? Is suffering necessary? Is not the spiritual path
within?
Stuart: "It's not necessarily uncomfortable, but that we experience
something intense, which can be either pleasurable or uncomfortable, to
create internal change. You MUST have something to knock you out of the
mundane. The sensual is also a good way to do this. That's why I'm pro
sex as a path to spirituality."
Sadie: You write that, "Sex energies can be rechanneled in many
ways to create unique experiences that will be as individual as the
persons experiencing them. This is Sex Magic." What are some of the
practical techniques you use to bring Sex Magic into your scenes?
Stuart: "SM itself is Sex Magic. I think the drive underlying it is
primarily erotic. We SM practitioners do so much more than sex and we
work with sex to heighten and prolong its energies and create
experiences far beyond a good fuck. So, any technique that does this can
be termed ‘Sex Magic,’ whether it's whipping, CBT, TT, abrasion,
bondage, etc. Of course, Tantra and other sexual yogas are also Sex
Magic practices."
Sadie: You write that, "Our bodies are our best toys, and we are
not our bodies. Often, S/M has been referred to as an Apollonian way of
reaching the Dionysian state - in other words, a controlled, skillful,
and thought-out process for reaching the intuitive/ecstatic state, or a
left-brain approach to triggering right brain experiences." I think
there's too many ten cent words in there Stuart. Are you saying that
BDSM is a catalyst to bring us into subspace, or some kind of meditative
state?
Stuart: "I like ten cent words, even some dollar ones; I have
Champagne tastes (grin). There's a good reason for that: I prefer
precise definitions to communicate clearly. (There's always a
dictionary) Sure, BDSM can bring someone into greater subspace or
topspace or even a meditative state, but it can bring us into other
states of awareness and understanding of ourselves that are far beyond
subspace. I would hope that people come to an SM scene already in
subspace or topspace, or how could a scene work? Being in the scene may
increase the depth of either space."
Sadie: You've said that "S/M can be considered a sexual
yoga." What do you mean by this?
Stuart: "Yoga is a ritualistic and meditative exercise that is
integrative of body and mind. Certain sexual practices, such as Tantra,
can be yogas. Tantra is a meditative sexual yoga in which cumming is not
a goal, but to direct the sexual energies toward union with god. Yoga
means to yoke with God. SM is also ritualistic practice and can be
considered a yoga, except that it takes two (or more) to entwine."
Sadie: You write that, "SM is capable of producing the altered
states of consciousness, catharsis and intense psychic bonding between
two or more people that makes it a viable shamanic practice." Is
this the particular quality that makes BDSM something that can be a
transformative spiritual practice?
Stuart: "Yes, exploring spirituality requires that one experience
alternate states of consciousness to break the illusion of the everyday
consciousness. The intensity of SM to force one out of the everyday
self-consciousness is transformative."
Sadie: You also wrote that, "Most western practices leading to
spiritual enlightenment are ones of physical denial: fasting,
asceticism, hermitage, poverty. But an intelligent indulgence of sex is
just as valid. Building up an erotic charge and keeping it without
release is one of the great spiritual secrets concerned with personal
power. For sexual energy does produce changes in consciousness and body
chemistry, and when directed in specific practices, such as S/M, it
becomes more than just a good fuck." This resonated with me because
of my own interest in chastity. Are you referring here to simply not
orgasming as much or something else? What are some of the practices you
use to build up and keep your own erotic charge?
Stuart: "SM practices usually take a longer time than a quick fuck.
Most of us don't want to cum quickly or the driving energy underlying
the scene would be lost. We want the scene to last. There's a build up
of tension/energy and letting it plateau or subside a bit, then building
it up a bit more to a higher level than before. The particular practices
I think are the preferences of the individual practitioners - what works
for them. My own interests and practices are fairly diverse and depend
on the person I'm with. Many SMers don't care to orgasm in the scene,
but possibly afterward. Sometimes scenes go so far beyond genital sexual
stimulation that orgasm is irrelevant."
Sadie: According to one of your articles, shamans are "often
identified in childhood by their proclivities: sensitivity, artistic,
empathic. They are often gay or bisexual." It makes sense that the
artistic temperament might be more spiritually minded, but what does
one's sexual orientation have to do with it?
Stuart: "It may be somewhat of a cultural thing, meaning learned
rather than inherent, but if that's so, why were so many shamans of
isolated, so-called ‘primitive’ tribes of alternative sexualities?
Shamans were usually strange children, having some gift of the gods of
alternate perceptions and behaviors. Those were often linked with bi and
homosexuality."
Sadie: You also say that, "I can't accept the assimilationist
views of many of my brothers and sisters... Anthropological research has
shown that the majority of shamans from diverse cultures have been
homosexual or bisexual... We are different because of an inborn
androgynous balance, a sensibility and perceptiveness." In a
similar question, what does androgyny have to do with a greater
perception of God? What do you mean by assimilationist views?
Stuart: "I'm not sure that androgyny gives a greater perception of
god, but it does give one different perceptions from the mainstream.
Most of the wider gay community today wants to be just like their
straight neighbors except what they do in bed and buys into the
consumerist ideology. I don't. I think gays are a different people, not
better or worse, but different and those differences should be
celebrated for the richness they bring to society.
"The original gay movement wanted to free society of its sexual
repressions - a radical change. As far as I'm concerned, it has fallen
from grace."
Sadie: You've been very active in the gay movement for many years.
Can you give me a snapshot of what kind of work you are most interested
in, and involved in right now?
Stuart: "My work is primarily spiritual and cultural. I want to
alter perceptions and lead all people to see other possible ways of
being and living. Especially, I'd like to free sexuality from the
restrictive and poisonous views of Western culture."
Sadie: You were trained by an "Old Garde Master." As you
know, there's quite a bit of discussion about what the old guard is, and
is not. How would you describe your training?
Stuart: "The Old Garde is a myth, but an important myth based in
truths. It was not the monolithic conception that many people think.
There were distinct variations of behavior and beliefs all over the
country in the early days of the leather subculture. My training was not
as a slave, but as a free bottom by agreement bound to a top who was old
enough to be my father to train me in the arts of SM. I needed
experience. He gave it to me, lovingly and with discipline, and I had to
obey him to get that, although it wasn't always easy because it
conflicted with some of my beliefs and upbringing. Those preconceptions
had to be broken. I'm glad I did. For many years I've been able to pass
that knowledge on to others."
Sadie: What beliefs were your training in conflict with? How did you
resolve the conflict?
Stuart: "Being a countercultural person and inherently
antiauthoritarian, my beliefs at that time allowed me to obey no one and
to refrain from calling anyone ‘Sir’ or ‘Ma'am’. I'm still
extremely antiauthoritarian, but now I know the difference between real
authority that need not demand obedience and the all too common false
authoritarians who can't even control themselves so they want to rule
others. I learned that it was my decision to obey or not. There was no
coercion. Any pain or hardship was my choice and it taught me that good
can come from them. That is the most important difference in consensual
SM that separates it from violence."
Sadie: You actually describe yourself as "middle guard," when
it comes to BDSM, saying that "Not all of the Old Garde tradition
is good for our time, for example, that one was either a top or a bottom
and couldn't switch roles, some of it was regional or personality based
and downright silly." I can imagine some of the old guard hard
liners cringing at those words. Considering that so many of the people
who claim that they are old guard have such chips on their shoulders
about keeping it unsullied, how did you come to this modified approach?
Stuart: "The modified approach comes from observation of all the
differences and the contradictions of the many ‘One True Way’ (TM).
No one has an exclusive handle on how leatherfolk should behave and
believe, and new ideas should be welcome, tested, perhaps adopted. We
don't want to be stuck in the past or with any one individual's
particular, exclusive concept of how leather/SM should be."
Sadie: You make your own BDSM toys, and in fact spend a fair bit of
time in this pursuit. What does this add to your overall
experience?
Stuart: "The toys are mine. I've put the labor of love, design,
building and testing (Oh yes, the testing!) into them. They are built to
enhance my particular fetishes, always a good thing. I know how they
will work and can take pride in them."
Sadie: One friend told me that I am a shaman through my writing,
meaning that through this gift I validate and help others on their own
BDSM and spiritual paths. Considering that you've broadened the concept
of traditional shamanism to include your own "cybershamanism,"
what do you think of using the word broadly to include other kinds of
ways of helping people across to spiritual places?
Stuart: "One can practice shaman through writing. I do. But do you
challenge others and facilitate changes? Are you pushy in wise ways?
Shamans are shamelessly manipulative because they may be able to see
what needs to be done to facilitate changes whether the subject likes it
or not."
Sadie: Is there anything else you'd like to share with our readers?
Stuart: "I'm always available for a chat or consultation. I love
teaching and helping others to realize their potentials."
Sadie: Thank you for chatting with me!
Stuart: "You're welcome!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sensuous
Sadie is the author of It's Not
About the Whip: Love, Sex, and Spirituality in the BDSM Scene (http://www.trafford.com/robots/03-0551.html).
She is the founder and leader (1999 - 2001) of
Rose
&
Thorn
,
Vermont
's first BDSM group.
Comments, compliments and complaints, as well as requests for reprinting
can be addressed to her at SensuousSadie@aol.com
or visit her website at www.sensuoussadie.com. Sadie believes the universe is abundant, and that sharing information
freely is part of this abundance, so she allows reprints of her writing
in most venues.
Copyright
2003 Sadie Sez Publications
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