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dante1@earthlink.net
www.bullwhip.net
Robert
Dante is an internationally recognized bullwhip expert who has presented
performances, workshops and demonstrations in major cities throughout
the United States. He is the founder and coordinator of LA Whip
Enthusiasts, and is a member of the Wild West Arts Club. Robert Dante
has been featured on TV programs and documentary films such as HBO's
Real Sex, Sin City, TVO's Studio Two, Jane Hawtin Live, and CBC
Newsworld's Chronicle, among others. He has also been heard on radio
programs from coast to coast in Canada and the United States since the
mid-1990's. Dante is based in Los Angeles, California."
Read
an Excerpt from Robert's book Bullwhip
Magic
SENSUOUS SADIE: You described the
first time you ever saw a whip used: a top in Houston using a 4-footer
whip on a bottom. What was the effect watching this had on you?
ROBERT: "It amazed me and gave me a hard-on. I saw the epitome, the
honest expression of consensual SM, right there in front of me."
Sadie: Did it move you primarily
on the BDSM end, or was it the technical artistry that turned you on?
Robert: "How can you
say one is not the other? I learned my SM as a skill, an art, and a
craft. It was a tool to express my Sadism, not a substitute for it. So
the better I was with my tools, the more I could use them creatively and
satisfyingly in my BDSM. I did not separate between the two.
"For example, I throw knives. I practice this, from 5 feet and 10
feet. I can plant a knife 11 times out of 12, with either hand. I
started doing this because I wanted to bring my left hand up to a level
of accuracy I have with my right hand, and knife throwing has much in
common with whip throwing (check out Gil Hibbens' book), and I found the
practice has helped."
Sadie: Just as Bob Deegan in NYC
is primarily known for "East coast style" whip throwing, I've
read that you are primarily known for what some call the "west
coast style" of whip throwing. How would you describe the
difference between these two styles? Do you feel that this difference is
important on any level deeper than style-wise?
Robert: "Not everyone
wielding a whip in a dungeon is a whip cracker. It is the ignorance of
others which makes a distinction between West Coast cracking and East
Coast cracking. There is only cracking. That's all. It is circus
cracking. It is Australian cracking. It is sport cracking, target
cracking, and two-handed multiple-routine cracking. It is knowledgeable
whip handling. It is whip cracking. Period. The only difference between
me and other experienced and top-notch whipcrackers around the world is
in the application. I take my skills into the dungeon, where my command
of my tools allows me to craft a SM scene. There are two kinds of
low-level SMers: Those with great ideas and no ability to make it
happen, and those who have marvelous technical ability and no sense of
what is possible beyond themselves. The artists among us have the tools,
the vision, and the heart to do The Work.
"Every good whip man (or woman) has an understanding of the
fundamentals of how a whip works, of the power and the grace of the
singletail. Even though many whip crackers have their own unique styles,
if you look under the surface, you will see a grounding in the basics.
Once a person has claimed that for himself/herself, made it their own,
they can imbue it with their personality. But style is not a substitute
for skill, just as arrogance is no substitute for substance."
Sadie: You throw in a variety of
styles which are exhibited in your various demos: BDSM, western,
cabaret, and a circus demonstrations. What is the difference in your
mindset from going from a BDSM to a more vanilla demo?
Robert: "The key is
always to stay in touch with the whip's energy, listening to its music,
keeping your eye on the target, staying centered and focused, in
control. With mainstream work, what counts is not what you are feeling,
but what the audience feels as it watches you. In BDSM, it doesn't
matter what the audience thinks, what matters is that connection you and
your bottom. The world disappears when you are doing a good scene, there
is no one but the two of you, and you are One, with the whip the
connection between you."
Sadie: Some of your shows
including your using a whip to cut playing cards, snuff candles, pop
balloons, slice bananas, and so on. What do you think are the most
difficult shows to put on?
Robert: "Shows where
people do not know what is required for me to give a good show. I say I
have a 6-foot whip, they think a 10-foot room is adequate. But a 6-foot
whip has 2 feet of fall and cracker, making the whip's reach 8 feet. Add
to that your arm, you're talking about 11 feet. Remember that this is in
front of you only, you need the same distance behind you, if you are
going to actually use the whip. So that totals 22 feet. Add a miniscule
safety margin, and let's say it comes to 25 feet. Now, if you are going
to be working horizontally, as well, that puts you in the middle of a
circle with a 25-foot diameter. When I see a space that is 10 feet long
and 5 feet wide, I know I am going to have to make some changes to the
routines.
"The hardest thing in the world is to pop those damned balloons.
Guy Baldwin agrees. They must be making these 'helium quality' balloons
with leftover material from condoms! They do not want to break. I've
even tried water balloons, which are designed to pop, it's a coin toss
if the balloon pops or not. I like to shift the odds to my favor for
most things I do, so I use a special cracker, with a little fishing line
braided into it. This increases the odds greatly, but it is never 100
percent certain.
"I hate parking lot shows, the asphalt is ruinous to whips, so I
have to take special care to keep them in the air most of the time.
"The other factor, which makes any show difficult, is my lack of an
ongoing assistant to perform with me. I can coach someone before we go
out on how to hold, how to move, how to stay out of harm's way, what to
expect in the sequence of stunts, but it is not a substitute for hard
work, for rehearsing again and again and again, until you both have it
down cold."
Sadie: You do an electric show
with blacklight-activated stockwhips, which have been described "to
strobe through the air, leaving neon-like trails as they crack."
What are the challenges of doing this kind of show?
Robert: "The space. The
whips are long and powerful, and when they start moving fast on both
sides of me, I have to stay committed to the routine. I also need to
position the blacklights so they hit the whips optimally or the audience
will not get the 'trails' effect."
Sadie: You can do several
different vanilla demonstrations in one day, but have said that you can
only do one 2-3 hour BDSM demonstration in a day because you are
"fried" afterward. What is the quality of your BDSM demos that
is so different than your vanilla ones?
Robert: "The psychic
energy expended. It generates energy, but afterward, I really need to
recharge my battery. When I am giving a vanilla demo, I am showing folks
how to use whips safely and confidently. I can show just about anyone
from 5 years old to 90 years quickly how to crack a whip with control,
even if they are in a wheelchair. I could do this all day long. I do not
have to go into their psychosexuality, into the ramifications of
wielding such power in the direction of someone else. When I give a BDSM
workshop, I understand the gravity of what is happening, even if the
participants do not. If I do my job right, they learn by being
entertained. They do not see how I am teaching them on many levels at
once. For example, if I am spot-on on a particular day and almost unable
to miss what I'm doing, I will deliberately fuck up at some point and
make it look like an accident. And then I will laugh out loud and fuck
up again, slowly, deliberately, as if fascinated by the process.
Something this simple gives them permission to screw up, to be awkward,
to be less self-conscious about learning. It frees them, because it
removes the Me-Them boundary. I'm just another whip handler, perhaps
more experienced and knowledgeable than they are, but one of them,
still. This allows them to hear me, to make this activity their own.
"Another trick I use is to have someone hold the whip in their weak
hand. They crack a while, really being awkward, but when they put the
whip into their dominant hand, they are usually surprised to see how
much they just learned.
"This is because most people think too much. They seek to impose
their editing mind, their judgmental mind, and their conscious control,
onto the whip. They try to tell the whip what to do. You cannot do this,
or you are limiting what the whip could be doing, beautifully and
gracefully. You have to 'ride the horse in the direction it's going.'
You can guide it, become One with it that way, like a rider and his/her
motorcycle, but the rider does not push the handlebars harder to make
the bike go faster. It doesn't work that way. I have seen that the
easiest people to teach are Tai Chi practitioners, and children. So the
question I asked myself was, 'How do I make a person a child so they can
learn this faster and more truly?' One answer is to put the whip into
their weak hand. For some reason, they are less able to impose their
mental images of how a whip is 'supposed' to be thrown onto the whip.
They start paying more attention to the whip, to its speed, to its
nature, its weight, its timing. And as a consequence, they start getting
in tune with the whip. The whip already knows how to crack; it's us who
need to learn how to let the whip crack. Further, it teaches them on
both sides of their brains, making it an integrated experience, which it
should be. Mind and spirit, experience and discovery. This method works.
And it's fast, and it does not condescend to the person learning. In
fact, it gets them where they want to be faster. I take my teaching
seriously; it is not 'The Robert Dante Show.' It is only satisfying to
me if people walk out of my workshops with a great deal more than they
walked in with, and if they are empowered to make this activity their
own.
"I do not want to teach people to crack like me. I want to teach
them enough so they can continue to teach themselves and to learn
correctly for the rest of their whip cracking lives. Because there is no
end to this road. The whip is a Road to the Absolute. I treat it as a
holy thing, a meditation, a prayer, as much as a sport or a fun
activity, because it is all of these things to me. And that I want to
communicate to people, when they see my relationship with my whips. It
teaches them respect, for the whips and for themselves, I hope.
"Did I answer the question?"
Sadie: Yes, I'd say so! You
describe your work with the whip as a dance. Obviously a great deal of
technical training is necessary. What is the role of art and
spirituality in what you do?
Robert: "Shh. It IS
what I do, but let's leave that our little secret, okay?"
Sadie: You call your instrument
"the epitome of S&M." Can you explain what you mean by
this?
Robert: "The bullwhip's
crack is unmistakable. It cannot be ignored. Some people have Pavlovian
responses to the sound, even if they have never been struck by a whip.
It is still a way of guiding animals, by the sound alone. It is an art,
a skill, and a craft (both whip making and whip cracking). For
centuries, a whip has been the expression of control and domain over
others. It is the expression of brutality (slavers' whips, the Russian
knout). In the hands of a devilish Dominatrix, it coils and slithers
like a snake, with a powerful bite. It is a power exchange made
physical, one person is on the handle end, and one person is on the
cracker end. Between them is the Power of the Whip. Every time a whip
cracks, it is breaking the sound barrier, about 750 miles per hour.
That's 1400 feet per second. Understand that a bullet leaves the barrel
of a gun at 1100 feet per second, and you get an idea of the Power being
called forth. This is Power which can cut flesh and break bones. And
with this instrument, which has a pain range unequalled by any other
single implement except electricity (to my knowledge -- if I'm wrong,
let me know), you can also craft a sensual, scary, satisfyingly erotic
scene. The whip is a phallus, an invasive penis, and the Manga-like
tentacles, which can invade a bottom's body 360-degrees. It licks like
the tongue of a dragon. It is sexy. It is dangerous. The word
'epitomizes' might be too weak, in fact, but it was descriptive when I
first used it. Truth is, a well-handled bullwhip IS SM."
Sadie: You write regarding doing
a BDSM bullwhip demo that: "I know someone is putting a lot of
trust into me when they stand before me. I am an executioner. I am a
priest, opening the door to a dimension of themselves they may have only
sensed distantly, and I make it as real as devastation, as sweet as
love." This is a beautiful way of describing the experience. How do
you share this with your audience?
Robert: "I mesmerize
them with the whip, with the intensity of the scene. I rely on the
Principle of Harmonic Vibration. I don't care if they identify with me
or with my bottom, if they actively mentally participate in the scene,
they can experience some of the power and wonder I feel when I am
standing in these crosshairs."
Sadie: Are your private BDSM
scenes as full of whip play as we might assume? What other interests do
you have in this area?
Robert: "It truly
depends on the person I am playing with. A lot of people want to
experience the whip, but they may be kinky vanillas who do not want
pain. They may be fear freaks. They may be 'star fuckers.' And I love
them all. This is one of the perks of traveling, when the money isn't
great. It gives me the chance to meet new people, and to encounter young
and lovely candidates for my evening's attentions. I will confess, I am
a slut.
"So yes, the whip is used in my personal scenes. It is the most
personal expression of who I am, outside of my own penis (which, noble
and scary as it is, is neither 6 feet long nor made by experts from
Australia).
"But any scene, especially a personal scene, can be many things.
This is the advantage of having any ongoing play partner, a luxury I
have not enjoyed for some years.
"I like using floggers. I like canes. I like Electro-torture. I
love rope bondage, and the torture of tight and painful bondage combined
with judicious use of a vibrator or dildo (or two). I like knife play (I
do throw knives, but I do not do this with a human target, yet). I like
piercing, both play and permanent. I like catheters, removing control of
even this most basic function from the person. I like ass play. I like
forced ass fucking. I like rape play. I like fisting, vaginal and anal
(and my hands are not small). I like breath play, I love 'choke chicks.'
Really do. Strangling with a rope, scarf, or my gloved hands is a hell
of a turn on, especially when I'm fucking someone into unconsciousness
(sorry, Jay, yes, it's dangerous, folks, but I worked 6 years in an
Intensive Care Unit, that's edge play from Hell!).
"It's a power trip second only to the bullwhip, for me. I am a boot
fetishist, a woman is never more beautiful than when she is naked,
kneeling and booted. I like face slapping, hair pulling, verbal
humiliation, kicking (great for Nazi interrogation scenes). I like age
play, incest play. I like gender fucking, in which I dress my sub like a
boy. Sometimes I take them to a gay bar; a cute ass is a cute ass,
friends.
"I like sensory deprivation scenes. I've done fire play, but it
doesn't float my boat. Mummification is not my cup of tea, even if the
bottom likes it. I like forced oral (see: play rape). I like suspension
scenes, inverted, particularly, combined with whip play (I love the work
of Insex.Com, on this point, great bondage Tops). I like hanging people
(I belonged to a group of noose Topmen, years ago); I like watching a
good 'air dance.' I don't like wax play. I do like pissing on someone,
very much, in fact. I prefer shaved cunts and asses. I will fuck a
female, but I will play with male or female, quite satisfyingly.
"I like slut training, watching the one I adore being used by
others, it increases my desire to see someone being so desirable to
others. I'm not into puppy play, but I admire pony girls, and I will
admit there are aspects of bestiality which I find interesting (not
dogs, horses). I really, really, really like breast torture, and I would
like to try breast hanging with a willing candidate, if I can find one
(yes, it can be done, and it is Hot). I like objectifying a sub (male or
female), making them into a piece of furniture, a chandelier, footstool,
ashtray, whatever. I like snuff fantasies and cannibalism, yes,
vegetarians taste better. I've performed cuttings and severe procedures.
I actually like giving enemas (a hark back to my ICU days? maybe).
"I like training women to ejaculate, this is very cool. I like
inducing lactation over a period of time, it requires patience. I like
hard and sharp biting (ask my mostly intimate play partners!). I can be
a stickler for protocol, if that is the basis of our relationship. I
don't like 'mind fucks', I think they're cheap. I prefer the fear in my
bottom to be real; it's a different flavor. And yes, I engage in 'no
safe words' play, from time to time, but not often, and not with just
anyone. I like taking photos and videos of my handiwork. I may turn this
interest to commercial expression, down the road.
"So, what else is there?"
Sadie: Can't think of much! Do
you integrate a sense of your spiritual life into your scenes? If so,
how?
Robert: "Always. How?
Get calm, get focused, and open the door inside. It's an alchemical
process; you create a crucible, which will contain the molten metal. It
must be strong enough to contain the process. By this analogy, your
structure of your scene is the crucible. Once it is in place, you
perform the ritual, but then you have to step back and let nature take
its course, you have to let the magic happen, you cant force it to
happen, or it will be as small as you are. When a magical scene is
working well, the Power flows from the stars through me, into the
instrument (the whip) to the bottom, who accepts the power, compounds
it, and sends it back into the universe. It becomes a cycle, a power
dynamic that is astonishing in its force. This is why, once the scene
begins, you have to leave your ego behind, or it'll get in the way of
what could have been a strong scene for both of you.
"You become the god itself, the 'divine horseman' of voodoo
tradition. When an Egyptian priest donned the mask of Anubis, he was not
masquerading as the god, the god entered him and Anubis was present. The
old gods were real, and some say they are still here, still real, just
working a little more quietly. I have seen enough in my life and
encountered enough entities from different cultures to believe this is
true. Completely. The old gods live, and our play, our scenes, our magic
in the dungeon can call them forth, believe me."
Sadie: How did you first discover
BDSM?
Robert: "I didn't
discover it. Columbus discovered it, in 1492. Or was it Newton, sitting
under an apple tree, hoping another apple would hit him in the head
because it was such a rush that first time? My own philosophy of BDSM
was developed to explain disparate elements, which apparently had no
connection, but I knew they did. The light bulb went off when I started
reading Nietzsche. Through him, I was led to Andre Breton, author of the
Surrealist Manifesto; it was the surrealists who rehabilitated DeSade
for a modern audience, back in the 1920's. They recognized in him the
dark force of sex as a surrealist experience, a revolutionary act of
personal liberation, of exploration into the unknown, of art and
nightmare become real at a profoundly deep psychological and biochemical
level.
"I just knew I was always different. When I was 5, I tried to
crucify my little brother in order to see how he would react. He
resisted, so I shaved his head, instead. I performed 'medical
experiments' on my classmates, from taking inverted rectal temperatures
to checking their pulses and making notes while I subjected them to all
sorts of indignities and tortures. I had a neighbor kid who actually
liked to have me strangle him, and I dug the hell out of it. Did it
again and again. I think I may have loved him. All this as a kid! And I
was bright, not antisocial, and not angry with anyone. I was just
curious. I enjoyed the intensity, the power, and the control. When I
became sexually active, I thought it was nice, but boring, dum de dum,
you come, it's done, until I discovered rough sex. Suddenly sex had
blood and cum in it, real life. I loved it. And when I started wearing
leather, by instinct alone, sex picked up even more power for me. I was
riding a motorcycle, at the time, and sleeping in my leathers. Years
later, it made perfect sense, until then, I followed my instinct, as it
turned out, it was correct, for me."
Sadie: You have said,
"Masochists are holy people. They have the biochemistry that allows
them to experience exalted states of intensity. And I can put them
there. By doing this, I partake of their experience and get high,
myself." Knowing this, do you also submit yourself?
Robert: "By definition,
probably so. It is possible I do generate endorphins, I have played with
my own pain, but I just can't let anyone else have that Power over me.
Something in me will not allow this. But when I sacrifice myself, I am
still the Top, even though my body is the bottom at the moment. What's
the expression from the Norse literature? Odin hanging on a tree,
crucified, plucking his eye out in order to see into the darkness of the
future, singing, 'Nine days I hung upon the tree, sacrificed myself to
myself, for wisdom.'
"I have an appadravya, a 4-gauge barbell that goes through the top
of the head of my cock and comes out below the head (where a Prince
Albert would). I did this piercing myself, slowly. It took hours. I came
out of understanding what goes through a samurai's mind and heart when
he commits seppuku, that crystal moment when thought must end and action
becomes the only reality. One wakes up. (This is why I said my penis was
'scary,' a few paragraphs ago. When I am fucking a women, the balls on
the end so the barbells rub her inside. This can be highly pleasurable
or excruciating. And for me, it's fun to play between the two. For oral
sex, I will condescend and remove the barbell, one does not want to chip
teeth or rip a palate.) I also have nipple piercings, 4-gauge and
10-gauge. Left nipple pierced for nearly 20 years. Loudest crunch I ever
heard from my own body, except for the time a doctor reset my broken
right hand (this is why I'm ambidextrous)."
Sadie: You work with stock whips,
bullwhips (regular handle and target handle) and snake whips/signal
whips. Can you talk a little bit about the basic differences between
these types?
Robert: "Sure. Easy.
Three types of whips, all distinguished by the nature of the handle: 1)
signal whip (snake whip, blacksnake, dog whip, etc) has no handle, is
flexible all the way to the butt; 2) bullwhip has a rigid handle from
which the thong arises; 3) stock whip is a snake whip on a stick,
attached by a 'knuckle.' Ways to throw these whips differ in order to
maximize the use of the leverage of the handle."
Sadie: Which are used more in
vanilla situations versus BDSM scenes?
Robert: "Stock whips
are most widely used in Australia, bullwhips (or even cow whips) in the
U.S, but even here, the stockwhip is gaining favor, since the long
handle allows a rancher to use it more safely on horseback. Dog team
drivers in the far North still use signal whips, but the greatest market
for them is probably the SMer, these days. Its advantage is its shorter
length, which allows it to be used more safely in the tight confines of
most playrooms."
Sadie: You say, "Expert
wielders of single-tail whips have a well-deserved mystique about them.
The good ones have paid their dues with patient practice. You can't fake
ability with a bullwhip, you either have it or you don't." What
would the average observer look for to know if a person was an expert or
not?
Robert: "Is the whip
part of them? Is it graceful, do they let the whip flow, or do they
force it? Is there a repertoire of throws, or is it a single circus
crack bang-bang-bang at the same loudness level every time? Is there
accuracy, will the whip do what they want it to, with finesse and force?
Are they accurate? Do they care for and respect their whips, and the
whips of others, the way a samurai would treat a finely-made sword? Are
they modest?"
"Ah, modest, what an interesting word. It leads me to this point:
"At the beginning, nothing comes of studying and practicing the
whip, and the whip handler will feel that he and others are unskilled.
If they are jealous, they think others are merely lucky. So at this
point he is worthless. When he gets better, he sees he is still useless,
but he is now aware of his insufficiencies and can start to see the
faults of others. He may have a few cracks down. He may show others, but
it is the blind leading the blind. At the next level, he is justifiably
proud of his ability, sometimes to the point of arrogance, as he laps up
praise and laments the lack of ability in others. In ordinary
whipcrackers, this is the hierarchy, just as it was for samurai back in
the days of Yamamoto Tsunetomo, author of 'Hagakure: Book of the
Samurai.' (Every Top or Master should read this book.)
"But there is another level, which transcends these. At this point,
the whip handler is aware he or she is on a Path, and that Path is the
Whip, so they never think of themselves as having 'finished.' They
honestly and clearly know their insufficiencies and faults, and never
believe in their whole lives that they have ultimately succeeded. These
are the folks who practice every day, as a meditation, becoming more
skillful than yesterday, more skillful than today. This is never-ending.
With these folks, expect to find modesty, integrity, and truth. This is
the Way of the Whip, if I may call it that. These are the Greats."
Sadie: From what I've read, if a
person's form is correct, the whip will crack. "It wants to crack,
it was made that way. Let it do its job." My guess is that most
people think incorrectly that most of the work is in swinging your arm
with a lot of force. What is it about whips that makes them
"made" to work with much less physical effort than one might
assume?
Robert: "Ah, the
physics. See the taper of a whip? Feel its mass, how tightly it is
braided? Now combine this with Newton's Second Law, and you get an
instrument that will take the transfer of mass from your body through
your arm into the whip where a rolling loop accelerates the power,
focusing it to the point it hits Mach I within 3 feet. A well-made whip
will crack, all by itself. If this were not true, I could not use an
8-foot whip held in my right hand to cut an object I hold inches away in
my left hand.
"There's no distance for me to make that whip reach out 8 feet to
crack at the end of its extension. But if I follow the principle and
allow the loop, the taper, to complete itself in the space right in
front of me by drawing my hand back slowly and at an even speed, the
result is a crack with control, accuracy and safety."
Sadie: You've written that:
"It's not unusual to meet someone who's paid top dollar for a
Morgan bullwhip without taking the time to learn how to use it, as
though the mere possession of such an instrument somehow magically
imparts some superior level of skill to the owner." Aside from you
extensive efforts at education, what's your approach to novices who are
doing this?
Robert: "I would like
them to realize that having a top-notch whip and not knowing how to use
it is like having a Steinway piano and expecting to beat great music of
it like a banjo. It doesn't work like that. At the other end, if you
have a crappy whip, you will never be able to move past the limitations
of the whip itself, you will compensate, learn bad habits, which will
not serve you, either. The best way is to get a good whip, then take the
time to go one step at a time, get it down, make it your own. Each step
leads to the next step; it's all connected. When I warm up, I still
'practice scales,' because without a good foundation, you cannot build
something excellent later."
Sadie: You have said that "I
have little sympathy for the top who whacks himself when he's trying
something new, but I have absolutely no respect for the ones who injure
others inadvertently because they are simply arrogant in their
ignorance." The Internet has brought a large number of novice
dominants into the community. Do you feel that this has contributed to,
rather than worked against the overall level of education level?
Robert: "Actually, this
may be true, and I regret this. I think this quote must have been from
years ago. I should have said I respect the Top who whacks himself,
because it shows he is at least doing something! I meet people who
proudly announce they have never hit themselves, in which case, I
respond, 'Then you need to practice more!' because everyone I know who
is any good still whacks himself from to time when he or she is trying
something new.
"I do still hold this opinion when it comes to whacking others,
though. And I am the worst critic of myself, in this regard, because I
will confess that I occasionally clip an assistant when the stunt is an
edgy one. I may catch a finger when I am cutting card, or I may come a
little too close when that newspaper is down to matchbook size. But this
is part of the game, when you are performing. I will say that most
accidents occur when I am practicing, but this is the place to make
mistakes. When it is a performance, you want to give yourself s little
more safety margin, because an inadvertent strike of severity will do
nothing but freak the audience out in a not good way, and there will be
no hiding that fact from the viewers, and the performance will have
basically crashed and burned in a single second. Sigh, it's happened to
me, and I've seen it happen others, even some of the Greats. And Lord, I
know how bad they feel, for themselves, and for their assistants, but
especially for the audience."
Sadie: I understand that there
are some whipmakers that don't sell to people in the BDSM scene. Is this
because they are worried about legal liability, or it more of a moral
issue? What are your thoughts about this?
Robert: "I am unaware
of any whipmaker except David Morgan who refuses to sell to scene
people. Most don't ask. And even Mr. Morgan has good reason to feel as
he does, as it turns out, some years ago, some idiot leathermen went
into his store, picked up a couple of snake whips and started hitting
each other with them pretty severely, right in front of him and his wife
and other customers. As a consequence, Mr. Morgan has a very negative
view of us. And frankly, given this introduction to leather lifestylers,
I can't say I blame him. These boys forgot the Old Guard Rule No. 1:
'Don't frighten the townsfolk.'
Sadie: You write that: "Even
a short four-foot bullwhip can cut like a chainsaw or slice like a
knife. A longer one can inflict deep-tissue bruising like a baseball
bat. A bullwhip can break bones." What are the safety precautions
you take around your play?
Robert: "You really
have done your homework, haven't you? Well, the safety precautions are
pretty basic. Make sure you have enough space, and that you have control
over that space, even to the lighting. Make sure no one goes into the
throwing zone. And PLEASE protect your own eyes, and the eyes of your
bottom or holder. Even if you are not close enough to touch them, if you
crack a whip toward their face, any schmutz or grit picked up by the
cracker could fly at their eyes with the power of a bullet."
Sadie: How much training would
you recommend before bringing in either bullwhips, or other types of
whips into a scene?
Robert: "No set amount
of training can be arbitrarily dictated. You can bring it in right after
you bring it home from the whip store. You can shake it at your sub to
terrify them, without cracking. After you get a crack down safely, you
can use the crack to bring an element of terror into your scene, once
again, without actually striking someone. The sound alone will have a
profound psychological impact. Once you can actually crack the whip
consistently with control and accuracy, you can start introducing some
light play into your scenes. The key here is Always Play BELOW your
Level of Competence. This is a good rule for playing with any dangerous
tool or technique, whatever it is. With a bullwhip or snakewhip, it is
vital.
"You can put all sorts of safety factors into the whip, large,
soft, fuzzy crackers which not be likely to cut but will still crack,
etc. But even these cannot be a substitute to knowledgeable and
responsible whip handling."
Sadie: At one point you were
outed at work and lost your job. Can you tell me a little bit about
that?
Robert: "Sure, I was
charged with assault years ago and the judge ruled my SM lifestyle was
fair game for the jury to hear. The prosecutor took the stance that if I
was into S&M, I obviously must have committed this assault. It was
the 'where there's smoke, there's fire' argument. My lawyer agreed with
me that we needed to not deny anything. In fact, we used my membership
in S&M organizations to show I was a responsible, recognized member
of what until then had been an absolutely underground community. Some
trusted friends in the scene actually appeared on my behalf. Further, we
introduced the NLA's Statement on Domestic Violence into the record, to
show the SM community itself was addressing this issue. The jury heard
us.
"They were able to look at the actual evidence untainted by the
stigma of S&M, and I was rightly found not guilty. But by then,
everyone in the arts community, in the publishing industry in the city I
lived in, knew I was a 'perve,' and my friendships suddenly evaporated,
my freelance work disappeared, my acceptance into circles necessary for
me to continue to work as a theater critic and reviewer dried up. My
career was dead, due to an unprovable blacklisting. It worked. My career
was over. I resolved then that I would fight this when I encountered it
so others would not have to go through what I did. I maintained that
promise for years, until I saw the price I was paying by trying to save
the community, when some of my biggest battles were against so-called
leaders in this very community. I saw their ambition for personal power
and prestige destroying honor and honesty (warts and all), which is what
I had based my life on.
"When my magazine folded in the late 90's, I decided it was time to
let others carry on the good fight. I'd done my duty, as best as I
could, at a profound personal price. It is unfortunate, that these kinky
vanillas masquerading as leather people had such a profound effect on
what this community is, these days. When we became more accessible to
the mainstream, we became a community that eats its own. And I am no
one's prey. So I remain an 'outrider' in this scene. I am sure there are
people who resent that I am still around, but what I do and what I say
must have some truth, because people still want to hear it. So I speak,
not because I am trying to gain power or prestige, but because it is the
fulfillment of my own promise to the universe. And when it comes down to
it, it is very much like the whip itself, you either have it or you
don't. There comes a point when the bullshit ends, and the truth becomes
apparent. I do have an edge, because I know what I'm doing, and that's
because I listen to the whip itself, and don't try to force my own
opinions onto it. It is a mistake to put forth effort and to obtain some
understanding and to stop at that."
Sadie: What advice would you give
to others in the BDSM lifestyle?
Robert: "I won't 'tell'
anyone anything. All I can do is share what I know of my own experience.
If they resonate to that, there must be some truth in it for them. But
this is their truth, too, not mine. Let the 'sawdust Caesars' try to
dictate to them, my own oft-stated belief is that 'No one owns the
Scene.'
"There are plenty of resources out there, these days, which there
were not when I was coming in. Avail yourselves of them, and do not let
anyone tell you how you should feel. Reality is elsewhere."
Sadie: You are known for being a
leather advocate in various areas, and yet you have said that you don't
feel that overall, your efforts were successful. What are the major
issues you are concerned with these days? Are you still working for
those issues?
Robert: "No, I am not
working on behalf of the community, politically or legally, anymore. My
work is more personal, truer. Since I really am what too many merely
pretend to be, I think I now serve the community best by simply being
who I am, openly and honestly. Real change occurs on the personal level,
one at a time, and by critical mass being achieved, the result is a
paradigm shift. I'd like to think I am helping this to happen. This is
the power of art, of example, of truth."
Sadie: You have said that your
work for the community has cost you a great deal personally. Can you
tell me what you have lost because of this?
Robert: "I lost my
home. I lost my wife and slave of many years. I lost my business. I lost
my belief in anything worth living for. I lost my money. I lost my past.
"I gained a higher understanding of the whip's power, of its
clarity and beauty. I gained the freedom to not be bound by opinion or
fear. Was it a fair trade? Who knows, on a dark night, I may find myself
missing what I once had, especially Mary, but I can at least smile with
the knowledge of what it's like to have had it. Most people never touch
that height."
Sadie: If you had to do it over
again, what would you do differently?
Robert: "Nothing.
Absolutely nothing. It all unfolded as it should have, as it needed
to."
Sadie: Is there anything else
you'd like to share with our readers?
Robert: "Sure, but that
would require us to step away from here with a couple of whips for a few
hours!
"Well, let's see...Okay, here's something. One of my favorite
quotes. From Wyatt Earp, a sadist and Top, a spiritual warrior in his
own way:
'Fast is fine, but accuracy is forever."
Sadie: Thank you very much for
chatting with me!
~~~~~~~~
READ MORE ABOUT ROBERT DANTE
Transcript: Chat with Robert Dante
http://no.place.like.home.mindspring.com/abbot/chat/020111_robert_dante.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sensuous
Sadie is the author of It's Not
About the Whip: Love, Sex, and Spirituality in the BDSM Scene (http://www.trafford.com/robots/03-0551.html).
She is the founder and leader (1999 - 2001) of
Rose
&
Thorn
,
Vermont
's first BDSM group.
Comments, compliments and complaints, as well as requests for reprinting
can be addressed to her at SensuousSadie@aol.com
or visit her website at www.sensuoussadie.com. Sadie believes the universe is abundant, and that sharing information
freely is part of this abundance, so she allows reprints of her writing
in most venues.
Copyright
2003 Sadie Sez Publications
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