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www.leatherpage.com
Gallagher@LeatherPage.com
Joe Gallagher, International Mr.
Leather 1996, is the Founder and publisher of LeatherPage.com a website
that focuses on current writings about S/M and leather. Joe's website
has become the "web site of record" for the leather and S/M
community both nationally and around the world. Joe is a barber [joethebarber.com]
who lives and works in San Francisco. He is an Associate Member of the
Chicago Hellfire Club.
SENSUOUS SADIE: You are the
founder and publisher of LeatherPage, one of the best-known BDSM
information sources on the Internet. With so much information already
available, what motivated you to add to the mix?
JOE GALLAGHER: “When LeatherPage.com was started in 1997 there was not
much information available on the web. The Internet was VERY young, and
what could be found on S/M and Leather on the web was mainly JO
material.
“During my year as IML I did lots of traveling. And often I would try
to find some group or club in the city I would be going to and could
not. I thought there has to be a better way.
“After my year as IML, I had the time to ‘give something back.’ I
remembered the frustration I had while traveling of putting my hands on
information about local news, clubs and events in leather scene where I
was going, so I decided to turn the vanity website I had put together
for my year as IML into something more useful to the S/M and leather
community.
“I love reading the editorial pages of just about any newspaper so
LEATHERPAGE filled the need with a name that gave the feeling of real
information and not just fluff. So LeatherPage.com came to be a site
with News, Opinions, Club Listings, and Event Listings.
“As LeatherPage.com grew, the event listing became too much work, and
I turned the event listings into a page with links to sites that other
folks put together. Eventually I was able to recruit some volunteers to
help with LeatherPage.com, and now; Jay Turner does the Club Listing
update monthly, Scott Brogan does Mr. Marcus’ column, and rich nordin
does everyone else’s column. Without these volunteers I would still be
spending 10 to 15 hours each week working on the HTML for the site and
now all I do is review the columns, upload them and pick the link of the
week.”
Sadie: You won the title of
International Mr. Leather in 1996. While the Leatherman concept is a
familiar one to the gay BDSM community, much of the "new
guard" of straight BDSM are not that familiar with what all that is
about. Can you explain?
Joe: “How as a gay leatherman do I explain the leather title system to
others when we cannot even agree on what it is supposed to be ourselves?
“Originally, International Mr. Leather [IML] was started in 1979 as a
party and the contest was designed to pick the ‘King of the Orgy.’
Not many were aware of it, but AIDS was already starting to hit the gay
men involved in leather and S/M. And somehow the king of the orgy got
the job of raising money to help our fellows with AIDS. Then we added
political activism. By the time I won IML in 1996, I was told to avoid;
the backrooms, talking about sex in public, and not do any more porn.
So, of course, what I did was have sex in the backrooms, talked about
public sex and sex in public, and I did more porn!
“For me, IML as a political activist is a sham. The guy carrying the
title barely has time to get his boots blacked before he is leaving home
to travel again. Every weekend is someplace else. Sending a quick thank
you to the hosts from the previous weekend is a huge accomplishment. I
see IML as a way for a leatherman to set an example. I think it is
really helpful to the new guys, to see a public display of what a
leatherman can be. Unfortunately, many folks want to turn the position
into pushing an agenda that is usually short sighted.
“For example, the year I was IML, the ‘Houghton’ case in upstate
New York was the big issue. The ‘Houghtons’ were a straight couple
who were supposedly being prosecuted for their interest in S/M. I was
really wary of this issue since these folks would not use their real
names and would not appear in public. So all this money was raised for
their ‘legal defense.’ I would not get involved, since I could not
meet them. Turns out there was some clouding of the facts and much of
the information we received was not accurate. But what I do know for
sure is that LOTS of folks raised money to help anonymous strangers, and
there is no accounting available as to what really happened. I am
grateful that I followed my gut and stayed away from this issue since it
now seems that it was a sham.
“During my year as IML, I tried to concentrate on being a leatherman
publicly. When I won I was working at Simplicity Pattern Company, and
took lots of shit for that job. But the fact was, I was honest about who
I was and what my life was about. I continued to be honest, even as I
left Simplicity for Wall Street and Salomon Brothers where I continued
my career in pre-press and publishing technologies. My phone number was
listed in the Manhattan directory and the name I used as IML is my REAL
NAME.
“IML is different each year. The wonderful thing is that whatever the
winner does is fine. The good work is absorbed and the bullshit becomes
the fodder of jokes… For example; ‘You Thirsty? Wanna Coors?’
Today no one really cares about that Coors shit. But everyone remembers
Guy Baldwin’s thoughtful writings and Tony Mills’ soul -moving
speeches.”
Sadie: The foundation of the
today's BDSM culture was the gay leather community and the "old
guard." With BDSM increasingly being mainstreamed, what do you feel
has been lost or gained in the process of the last 20 or 30 years?
Joe: “I think that ‘new guard’ is a misleading term. I know lots
of leathermen who have been involved with S/M for many years, and they
rarely use the terms ‘new’ or ‘old’ guard.
“Often when folks are busy speaking of ‘new’ and ‘old’ guard,
they are talking about protocol. Most leathermen I know don’t spend so
much time worrying about ‘protocol’ because they are too busy having
lives and trying to get in as much S/M as they can. That being said,
‘protocol’ is important when it means respect between the top and
bottom, or respect between men in the scene. I try to instill this
respect in the younger guys I have S/M with.
“On the other end of the ‘protocol’ spectrum, I think too many
folks have taken on traditions they thought
were valid and become a parody of what they perceive to be ‘real’
leathermen.
“Another important fact to remember is that when we talk about the New
or Old Guard we are have having a conversation and not talking about the
most obvious fact. The elephant in the living room we are ignoring is
that we lost almost an entire generation of gay men to AIDS.
“This created the gap between what we now see as the New or Old Guard.
And so many of the men who are now considered new guard were just the
men who had no choice but to mentor themselves. The mentors who should
have been there for them were too busy; they were dying, or caring for
their friends and lovers who were dying. There is an entire generation
of gay men represented by only a few survivors. How many gay men do you
know today between the ages of 45 and 55? I’ll bet not many.
“The experience of these younger gay leathermen is often similar to
the het S/M’er who had to develop on their own with no mentoring. And
for this next generation of unmentored individuals, the first connection
was originally in the published books on leathermen, leathersex and S/M.
We bought up anything we could find and made our own way.
“Then the web hit and information EXPOLDED. And this explosion has
been both good and bad for S/M’ers - LOTS of information is now
available in an easy and very accessible private format. And so way more
kinky folks are finding each other. However, way to many people are
being presented as experts with no real background to justify their
status.
“So we gained over the last 20 years with more kinky folks finding
each other. But the loss was tremendous, we used to have an exclusive
group that held the key to S/M for gay men, and you had to earn your way
in. Now you can just join a group. I joined the new way, but I wish I
had had the opportunity to join the old way.”
Sadie: There's quite a bit of
discussion as to differences in the Old Guard versus the more
contemporary styles of BDSM. Where would you put yourself in this
continuum? In what ways does the gay leather community still differ
greatly from the straight one? What things are the same?
Joe: “All I can say on New vs. Old Guard I said above. But the
differences in styles of S/M between gay and straight are amazing. I am
not really qualified to talk about BD [Bondage or Domination] since I am
not interested/turned on by either Bondage or Domination. But S/M, yeah,
there are lots of differences. The social/cruising aspect of the gay S/M
scene is totally different from the het or pan scene. And since I know
just about nothing of the lesbian scene I cannot even discuss that.
[Although I suspect they still have the old time requirement of
networking to get included in the S/M scene that gay men used to have.]
“What I have seen of the het and pan S/M scene is very oriented
towards inclusion of LOTS of different folks. Seems to me that this is a
healthy adaptation on a community level. Everyone gets included, and
every type seems to be tolerated. Within limits. From what I have seen
of the het/pan S/M scene the extreme S/M [which is what I love] is not
public. This also seems to be a healthy adaptation. Legal reasons seem
to prevent the extremes in public. Not bad logic from my perspective. A
great example of a het/pan event is Thunder in the Mountains held each
summer in Denver. It really has the BEST energy I have ever seen in a
non-gay male dungeon. Very powerful S/M happening, and there is respect
all around for what is really going on in that dungeon.
“There are many flavors of leather for gay men. There are those who do
the contests, and fundraisers but have no idea what a harness is really
for, or how to throw a flogger. Then you move to the other end of the
spectrum to groups like the Chicago Hellfire Club, of which I am an
associate member, and the infamous INFERNO that we hold each year.
“I prefer exclusively gay male dungeons. I am much more turned on if
the energy in the club is one I share. And that is what happens for me
at places like Inferno or Fort Troff http://www.fortroff.com
”
Sadie: The coming out of the BDSM
community has often been compared to the coming out of the gay/lesbian
community twenty years ago. Do you think this simile is an apt one? What
will we face that will be easier or more difficult than what the gay
community faced historically?
Joe: “I think that ‘coming out’ into the BDSM scene is very
similar to coming out into the gay community. There are some major
differences. Most folks that I know don’t feel the need to come out
about S/M to their families, so the level of out-ness is often lower.
“I think that our biggest problem is that most folks still do not VOTE
for sexual freedom. For example, I think I would vote for a Democratic
candidate that supports gay rights and may not be so good on other
sexual freedom issues before I vote for another party’s [like the
Green Party] candidate that supports sexual freedom but is not really a
viable party. I think that most kinky people are still more concerned
with other issues.”
Sadie: You have written about how
some members of the gay community feel that drag queens and leathermen
are too visible. In the quest for acceptance by the vanilla community,
it's understandable that the more exotic elements of a lifestyle could
hurt this acceptance. In fact the BDSM community faces this same issue
in that we play up the safe, sane, and consensual aspect of things and
play down more dangerous edge play. What are your thoughts on how to
resolve this dilemma?
Joe: “As I age, I have changed my views. I am a bit less out as a
leatherman in general society than I was in 1996. I have started to
appreciate the slogan of the leathermen in the 60’s, ‘Don’t scare
the natives.’ I now think we need to keep some things private. I
believe there are subjects that should not be part of the discussion
with the general public. Edge play is not a topic that folks unfamiliar
with S/M will be able to truly understand. I would rather not explain
myself to people who really don’t want to understand. I try to keep my
S/M out of the public eye and off the official radar. That way I am able
to do what I want to do, and not have to worry about being an educator
all the time. My life is too full
to spend all my time educating folks who probably don’t want the
lesson.”
Sadie: As Editor and Publisher of
LeatherPage, you are well aware of copyright issues. With so much free
information on the Internet, non-writers quite often reprint information
without permission. And yet we've all made Xerox copies of article to
share with a friend. Where do you draw the line?
Joe: “Based on a recent real event, I draw the line at posting an
article all over a bar, Internet, or other public space without
attribution to the original author. The Web is crazy, but I have
designed my site with archives so that folks link to files they want
others to read. I don’t have a real problem with deep linking to these
archived pages, as long as LeatherPage.com is being viewed in a new
browser window. I HATE when some web master links to my files in his
browser window as if the file came from his site. My only requirement
for deep linking is NEW WINDOWS.”
Sadie: You describe yourself as a
"very sex-positive, happy, open, approachable player in the leather
s/m world." How do you translate this into action?
Joe: “I don’t really concentrate on translating anything into
action. I just try to be myself and that description seemed appropriate.
I am a major schmoozer, and love to work a crowd. So hopefully the above
description normally fits me. But if I am hunting a boy in a crowd, I
would suggest everyone else spare me the small talk <G>”
Sadie: How would you describe
your BDSM interests? Any favorites?
Joe: “Whipping, punching, cutting, blood, all things with lots of hard
male-to-male energy.”
Sadie: Do you take a spiritual
approach to your BDSM play? If so, what is your approach?
Joe: “My spirituality is private, but it is major component in S/M for
me.”
Sadie: You are HIV+ and talk
about it openly. What do you feel that your frank discussion of this
adds to the discussion?
Joe: “HIV is a fact of life for me. I started to discuss it in public
in the middle of my year as IML. The timing of this discussion was no
accident. Back in May 1996 when I won, the miracle of the protease
inhibitor was still six months away, and since the out-look for HIV+
people was not too promising, I decided that I wanted to be known for my
strengths. I did not want to be known for my viral infection.
“I have been really lucky with HIV. No opportunistic infections, great
T-cell and viral load numbers, so I did not want HIV to be the first
thing I presented to folks. I held off the disclosure of my HIV status
until I was sure the leather world knew who I was. Then the fact that I
was HIV+ was just one more thing folks knew about me. I was not the HIV+
IML. I was Joe Gallagher the IML who is also HIV+. I think this was the
right thing to do at the time.
“Now the time is different. HIV is no longer the imminent threat that
it was in 1996. We are not going to memorial services two or three times
a month. Side effects aside, many of us now have the luxury of pulling
back from the all-consuming battle with HIV to actually live our lives.
And we get to live this life with only the minor inconvenience of taking
some pills a few times a day.
“I think the only thing I can add to any discussion of HIV is to be a
power of example. I have been HIV+ for many years now and I still work
full-time, and lead a very full and engaging life.”
Sadie: Is there anything else
you'd like to share with our readers?
Joe: “Don’t forget that we do S/M for ourselves. I am certainly not
here to be an activist or educator. I am here because this is my way of
celebrating my soul and the souls of the men I’m with.”
Sadie: Thank you very much for
chatting with me!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sensuous
Sadie is the author of It's Not
About the Whip: Love, Sex, and Spirituality in the BDSM Scene (http://www.trafford.com/robots/03-0551.html).
She is the founder and leader (1999 - 2001) of
Rose
&
Thorn
,
Vermont
's first BDSM group.
Comments, compliments and complaints, as well as requests for reprinting
can be addressed to her at SensuousSadie@aol.com
or visit her website at www.sensuoussadie.com. Sadie believes the universe is abundant, and that sharing information
freely is part of this abundance, so she allows reprints of her writing
in most venues.
Copyright
2003 Sadie Sez Publications
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